Achilles ever existed?
- Thread starter Lucifigus
- Start date
As far as I know he didn't exist? If you asked him if he was a "Zevist", he wouldn't know what you're talking about because that word didn't exist. He'd be Hellenist. No, I wouldn't agree that Zevist and Hellenist is exactly the same things, Zevist is more like Neo-Hellenist with modern influencing. For instance, the ancient Greeks approved of prostitution and slavery, I doubt the TOZ clergy would hold these beliefs since it's highly looked down upon in modern times. That's just two examples, I'm sure there's plenty other major differences.
Ol argedco luciftias
Well-known member
Zevist is an ancient Greek term. Why so many thousands of coins and other items that were meant to be blessed as a protective or prosperous talisman were with ZEV, ZEFS, and similar versions of this.
Ancient Greek slavery is also misunderstood. In that time, slave was simply the word for servant, so any kind of servant could also be called a slave. These were voluntary and paid jobs which are in most cases the same jobs that we still have today. Things like babysitters, private teachers, maids, cleaners, gardeners, chefs, repairmen, handymen. All of these same jobs that we still have today where people may be hired to help a rich family.
Ol argedco luciftias
Well-known member
Even if that were true, which it could be as far as I know I'm not well read on Greek culture, they still didn't refer to themselves as "Zevist". That's a term the TOZ came up with, which is fine. I guess they didn't want to use the term Hellenist for whatever reason, I can think of maybe a few. Zevist isn't an exact copy/paste of what an ancient Hellenist was, and again that's fine. It's not like the Ancient Greeks were the perfect society or anything, better than ours now quite arguably though.
![Lucius Invictus [NG]](/data/avatars/m/69/69213.jpg?1767423438){kind=avatar}
Lucius Invictus [NG]
Well-known member
Many of Homeric heroes had cult worship in ancient Greece, including Achilles and Odysseus. Furthermore, Gods like Asclepius were said to have been human in the Mycenaean era, later ascending into a God with cult.
The Iliad is an epic on living life itself, including on how the soul manages conflict and reconciliation. Therefore, the evens of the Iliad may be loosely based on actual characters, places, and events, with the purpose being instructive, however.
The Iliad is an epic on living life itself, including on how the soul manages conflict and reconciliation. Therefore, the evens of the Iliad may be loosely based on actual characters, places, and events, with the purpose being instructive, however.
It's not as if Greek slaves had much legal protections like a citizen would, obviously. Some were treated relatively fine as a slave, while others were treated like shit. It wasn't illegal to beat the shit out of your slave for instance, when this would result in a huge law suit if you did this to an employee. It's also not *always* true that slavery was voluntary?? How did I miss this the first time I read it lol. Greek slaves aren't "the same thing" as modern employees who have citizenship, wtf?
Ol argedco luciftias
Well-known member
I'm saying that the word "slave" was literally a synonym of the word "servant." In the extreme majority of cases, this was voluntary employment. There may have been some cases where it was worse.
Lucius Invictus [NG]
Well-known member
@N0b0dy
We are Zev-ists because we are followers of Zefs, the Supreme God. It is both ancient and innovative.
As for slavery in the Classical Era, it was a social class you were born into, with the opportunity to become free (in some poleis). It is true that slavery was not as severe as expected, but there were those who abused this relationship. It was what is was and it was not perfect.
We are Zev-ists because we are followers of Zefs, the Supreme God. It is both ancient and innovative.
As for slavery in the Classical Era, it was a social class you were born into, with the opportunity to become free (in some poleis). It is true that slavery was not as severe as expected, but there were those who abused this relationship. It was what is was and it was not perfect.
Ol argedco luciftias
Well-known member
The word "slave" with all current modern definitions and connotations did not exist. It was a different word with a different definition. And now modern people are reading old texts that contain a word that they do not realize is not the same word.
Hvítr Ormr
Member
I had a similar revelation when I started studying Classical Latin years ago. The word for "slave" there is servus, which is literally where the English word servant comes from, through French probably. A servant is not a slave though, right? It's just a job title like any other.
One example that I think proves that the word servus doesn't mean "slave" like we're told it does, is the fact there was a "slave" (servus) named Atimetus who once commissioned a large and very beautiful Tauroctony mural for a temple of Mithra, something that must have cost a lot of money. He must have been a pretty wealthy man to do this, as he was also described as being an "actuarius" (a banker or a record keeper) for a large Roman estate. The idea of a wealthy slave is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it, so I think we're not being told the truth here.
I don't think the concept of slavery really existed in Hellenistic societies like Greece and Rome in the way that we're taught that it did.
One example that I think proves that the word servus doesn't mean "slave" like we're told it does, is the fact there was a "slave" (servus) named Atimetus who once commissioned a large and very beautiful Tauroctony mural for a temple of Mithra, something that must have cost a lot of money. He must have been a pretty wealthy man to do this, as he was also described as being an "actuarius" (a banker or a record keeper) for a large Roman estate. The idea of a wealthy slave is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it, so I think we're not being told the truth here.
I don't think the concept of slavery really existed in Hellenistic societies like Greece and Rome in the way that we're taught that it did.
